SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

C21 Dreamscience Discussion

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How many KW's does C21 fuel mod gain on Focus RS?

Poll ended at Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:12 pm

0kw
10
18%
10kw
4
7%
15kw
11
19%
20kw
5
9%
30kw
10
18%
40kw
3
5%
50kw
2
4%
55kw
6
11%
60kw
2
4%
70kw
2
4%
80kw
2
4%
 
Total votes : 57
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby P Dubs - C21 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:04 am

bully wrote:is this only for DS guys or can it work with revo? I'm assuming it allows you to run richer or something so that you can run E85, or is that done with the mapping?

The SH3 controller is for any car with electronic boost and fuel pressure sensors. It just need to be programmed for boost and fuel pressure sensors. But you can do it yourself as well. Wiring is easy enough.
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby P Dubs - C21 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:09 am

bully wrote:
Bloubul7 wrote:
bully wrote:is this only for DS guys or can it work with revo? I'm assuming it allows you to run richer or something so that you can run E85, or is that done with the mapping?

From what I gathered through all of the previous vague clues is that it allows you to vary you fuel pressure based on engine load, boost etc.

would be cool if it allowed you to run E85 without having to change your map.

We gonna test that soon to see how safe it is. Obviously the gains would not be the same so we will sacrifice some power in the test. There will basically be a switch on SH3 to assist the transfer from e85 and 95 but on the st/RS, it might be difficult depending on what size injectors you using.
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby Boolee » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:17 am

P Dubs - C21 wrote:
bully wrote:is this only for DS guys or can it work with revo? I'm assuming it allows you to run richer or something so that you can run E85, or is that done with the mapping?

The SH3 controller is for any car with electronic boost and fuel pressure sensors. It just need to be programmed for boost and fuel pressure sensors. But you can do it yourself as well. Wiring is easy enough.

P Dubs - C21 wrote:
bully wrote:
Bloubul7 wrote:
bully wrote:is this only for DS guys or can it work with revo? I'm assuming it allows you to run richer or something so that you can run E85, or is that done with the mapping?

From what I gathered through all of the previous vague clues is that it allows you to vary you fuel pressure based on engine load, boost etc.

would be cool if it allowed you to run E85 without having to change your map.

We gonna test that soon to see how safe it is. Obviously the gains would not be the same so we will sacrifice some power in the test. There will basically be a switch on SH3 to assist the transfer from e85 and 95 but on the st/RS, it might be difficult depending on what size injectors you using.

yoh! I want! but it must work on the stock ST injectors.
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby wiek_mps » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:40 am

Most of the newer cars can run 10-20% E85 without any issue or remapping. For ex the mps can run up to 10% from factory. We have been playing around with ethanol for a while now on the MPS and have seen massive gains with as little as 20% E85 and 95 mix. The two main factors in my mind is that you will have to scale your maf as you can dangerously run lean as you would need more fuel if running E85/95 mix. The biggest concern especially on the reef will be advancing the timing to much cause E85 is a great knock suppressor with as little as 10-20% and advancing the timing to much can result in hitting and passing MBT (minimum ignition timing advance needed to obtain the maximum torque ) Basically trying to spin the crank in reverse. It can be achieved very easily and once you add timing but not seeing any power increase then you looking for trouble and you should dial back a bit. Best to do this on a dyno of course. IMO E85 is better and cheaper than NF and is a fuel type and not a additive like NF. I have seen what NF do to plugs as well. Just my 2c.

BTW Pdubs that is a massive increase... Awesome stuff and welldone
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby Boolee » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:42 am

with revo, can't you just run it rich by setting the fueling on the sps, something like 991 perhaps? :?
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby PoLonY » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:56 am

wiek_mps wrote:Most of the newer cars can run 10-20% E85 without any issue or remapping. For ex the mps can run up to 10% from factory. We have been playing around with ethanol for a while now on the MPS and have seen massive gains with as little as 20% E85 and 95 mix. The two main factors in my mind is that you will have to scale your maf as you can dangerously run lean as you would need more fuel if running E85/95 mix. The biggest concern especially on the reef will be advancing the timing to much cause E85 is a great knock suppressor with as little as 10-20% and advancing the timing to much can result in hitting and passing MBT (minimum ignition timing advance needed to obtain the maximum torque ) Basically trying to spin the crank in reverse. It can be achieved very easily and once you add timing but not seeing any power increase then you looking for trouble and you should dial back a bit. Best to do this on a dyno of course. IMO E85 is better and cheaper than NF and is a fuel type and not a additive like NF. I have seen what NF do to plugs as well. Just my 2c.

BTW Pdubs that is a massive increase... Awesome stuff and welldone


Just to correct you Ethanol is not called E85, it's E100

E85 is already 85% pure ethanol and 15% 95 mix

So mixing 10% E85 with normal fuel is diluting the mix even further.

You commonly get 95-96% pure ethanol from places like Protea chemicals and that's what you wanna mix with 95 fuel in a 10-20% ratio to make E10 - E20

Not fighting or anything, just clearing up the confusion some guys have
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby wiek_mps » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:35 pm

Yes can see where the confusion can be and agree, we get from Rolfes chemicals and it is E95/5 and we mix that with 95. So for example we will mix 20L 95 with 5L E95 to get to E20. That E20 now being 20% E95 mix with 95 if that makes sense. Running straight E85 will require in most cases additional fuelling and you probably will run out of injector duty cycle. Just saying that be careful with ethanol mixes but once you tuned for it and all good you gonna love it. Got to love the corn ek se :D In the states they have E85 pumps. How cool is that??
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby FEENIKS » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:39 pm

wiek_mps wrote:Yes can see where the confusion can be and agree, we get from Rolfes chemicals and it is E95/5 and we mix that with 95. So for example we will mix 20L 95 with 5L E95 to get to E20. That E20 now being 20% E95 mix with 95 if that makes sense. Running straight E85 will require in most cases additional fuelling and you probably will run out of injector duty cycle. Just saying that be careful with ethanol mixes but once you tuned for it and all good you gonna love it. Got to love the corn ek se :D In the states they have E85 pumps. How cool is that??


What the hell do you know about fast cars anyways :lol:

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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby wiek_mps » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:41 pm

Hi Jez

Absolutely nothing bwhahahahah :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby Marcus » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:49 pm

Wouldn't this require upgraded fuel pump and fuel lines for ethanol seeing as ethanol eats into stuff?
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby Boolee » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:51 pm

Marcus wrote:Wouldn't this require upgraded fuel pump and fuel lines for ethanol seeing as ethanol eats into stuff?

is that why i saw you pouring ethanol in your jean pant?

ja hekse, you'll need lines and new pump, and all rubber o-rings must be replaced.
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby Marcus » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:53 pm

Thank you... Where is the C21 behind yóur name?!
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby Tren » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:55 pm

Marcus wrote:Thank you... Where is the C21 behind yóur name?!


wheres the pw000s behind ur name ? :lol:
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby PoLonY » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:58 pm

Marcus wrote:Wouldn't this require upgraded fuel pump and fuel lines for ethanol seeing as ethanol eats into stuff?


Most euro spec cars are flex fuel (ie ethanol) friendly in their fuel setups.

Volvo T5 is flex fuel friendly
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Re: SH3 + Ethanol = xx gain

Postby Marcus » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:58 pm

Tren wrote:
Marcus wrote:Thank you... Where is the C21 behind yóur name?!


wheres the pw000s behind ur name ? :lol:


Lol mus edit to MP

:lol:
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